Now that OWS is available and people are using it, it would be nice to hear how it is being received, how people are using it, and what's planned for the future of OWS as a dotnetnuke development platform.

Thanks & keep up the good work.

I'm very interested in OWS. I can tell that the learning curve is quite steep, and there doesn't appear to be much in the way of documentation, user guides, etc.

I'd love to know more.

OWS has shipped and is supposed to be an upgrade from ListX.  As a ListX user I am very interested.  However, it now is under a GNU license and is free.

Its web site is:  http://www.openwebstudio.com/About.asp

There are some GREAT new features:

• Version control with rolback and revert
• A wizzy grahpic interface.
• Support of old ListX syntax and a newer more extendable one
  

There appear to be a few issues:

• Support appears to be on a $50 per month subscription bases! I wonder if developers will answer questions in the Forum like they did with some regularity with ListX?
  
• OWS is free and under a GNU license.
• Documentation is a bit rough at this time. The 3 videos cover what the first ListX example did.  The rest of the documentation is a wiki.
• Instructions for upgrading from the current ListX seem non-exestent at this time!
  

I plan to try an upgrade of some of my ListX modules on a localhost so see how it works.

/DaveS

I've been having trouble getting my hands around OWS, too!

I spoke to the R2i crew at OpenForce, and they said that they would be producing some new instructional material.  I certainly hope so, as the learing "curve" for this product seems more like a learning "cliff."

Having done a full application suite using ListX, I fouled its that learning curve to be a cliff.  This one looks like a cliff on steroids.

From the little that I have researched so far it appears:

• That this is a wrapper / development environment for ListX. ie all listX functions and code can be migrated.
• Other than the wizzy IDE and version control, it is unclear exactly what new application functionality exists.
• It is a GNU license product
• Support is on a subscription basis $50-$70 / month.
  

I am locked into ListX for my existing a application wich is working well. I currently need to figure out my future plans.  Choices seem to be:

• Stick with ListX version 1.99.* for ever and hope that future changes made by my hosting provider such as .Net's next version, Server 2008, IIS next version etc. don't break ListX 1.99
• Migrate to OWS and be a pioneer.
  
• Wait for OWS to mature, and migrate later. Hoping all the time that nothing breaks ListX 1.99.

I actually expect that it will be a little of all three. Staying on ListX, trying a test migration on localhost system and being an early user of OWS on my production server  after it has matured a little.   It isR2i's new support strategy that concerns me the most.  They weren't great about quicly fixing bugs,  improving their documentation, examples or having their developers answer question in their forums with ListX.  With their new support strategy, I wonder if this will improve or get worse.

I am planning to do a test migration this month,

/DaveS

keep us posted Dave, good luck,

Thanks,

As for hosting sites, they should allow you to upload modules to your DotNetNuke configuration. So, you can install OWS on your hosted site.

I forgot to mention, I've upgraded to dnn 5 and the ows (r2i) modules work with no problems. Last night I've build a form with ows and it took me about an hour or two. What the form does is to allow each user to create records with a date, start time end time and category fields. These records then gets displayed to a moderator. The moderator click one link and all the records for that user gets moved into the Event table. The Events table is part of the dnn Events module. This is an easy way to do mass loads to the Events (Calendar) module.

I am pleased to hear of jsput's success with OWS. As you know www.AgingSafely.com uses ListX in many places. Last month I did a trial at upgrading and had mixed results:

• Using the Quickbuilder was easier than in ListX. However, if you have many data fields in a table the new JavaScript display of an entry that shows up "inside of the grid" didn't seem to work well.  Also OWS's Quick builder seems to have its own css style and use the old DataGrid model. I did use  Quickbuilder to make a mini-app to update a table, and it worked ok
• I tried to upgrade an existing come what complex ListX module/app. This was a total failure. Nowhere in the OWS Wiki and the 3 videos was the subject of upgrading even discussed.  Supposedly all I should have had to do was export the XML from the ListX module and import it into OWS.  OWS didn't like it at all.  I made a few inquires in the OWS forum, but there were no answers.

My current status is that ListX is working great, so I am not rushing to OWS. I think I'll wait to see "if and when" other ListX users migrate.  Right now there doesn't seem to be a critical mass interested in migrating. Hopefully a little time and attention will help.

I found really great samples when I started on this site:

http://openwebguru.blogspot.com/

I also did not like the Quickbuilder default look, but it was easy to create my own look. I used Sql stored procedures to provide the data and html to display it. I was able to use dnn calendar controls on the forms, dropdown boxes, filter dropdown boxes at the top of the forms to filter the data in the grid, html charts etc.

I would greatly see Leigh do some tutorials on OWS. I use XMod, and have seen the stuff one can do with DataSprings Forms in the recent tutorials, as well as trying out OWS. As for Content Management Systems now encompassing Forms and Data Management OWS has some distinctive advantages over the others. 1. It connects at a database level, meaning developers can still use SQL tools and utilities they are used to, in addition to the OWS interface. It also means that data gathered and stored by OWS isn't a hassle to integrate with other plugins and forms. You can use OWS to access content/data made by other modules. You can use OWS to gather data that will then be used by other modules. It's a rather clean channel to collecting and storing data where it belongs... ..in the database, anywhere in the database. 2. It's free. This would be less important if there were only 1 Forms/Data Management module, like when XMod reigned supreme. But with increasing ways to get Forms/Data management in CMS, including DNN's new Core Repository module, free is important. "Free" is going to be a necessary prerequisite of the standard that will win in attracting developers to spend their time learning and contributing. 3. It's OpenSource. Not only is it free, but it's Open Source. More advanced developers can contribute freely to make it easier to use, more accessible through wizards and design time tools. ...I could even see OWS becoming part of the DNN Core in the future as Data Management becomes an essential part of Content Management. It will allow even greater participation than XMod, which has done a really good job of people sharing Forms and Templates. So the drawbacks of a currently steeper learning are not as compelling I think. And some tutorials from Leigh would knock down that curve, and have DNNCreative subscribers creating some nice OWS sites. ...I don't think there's another Forms module out there that comes close. If there is one, I'd like to hear about it.

Hello,

Well, you will be pleased to hear that in issue 43 we launch a 6 part series on OWS. - This is by a new tutor, Paul Deschenes.

You can hear more about this in the latest podcast:

29. DotNetNuke News, DNN Creative 400 Videos, Paul Deschenes, R2i OWS, Google Maps, Quantcast

Thanks,

Lee

Hi Lee! I most definitely am! (Pls forgive the formatting that IE 8 helped me post before.)

I am evaluating OWS, first by following the six tutorials by Paul Deschenes (thanks!). First impression is VERY positive, I see it as being akin to XMOD in being able to place a blank module on a page and configure it to do whatever. It looks much better in the ability to package a module once built into a PA that can be installed on other DNN sites. I've played a bit with that concept with XMOD, but configuring a package on another site requires a lot of hands on XMOD configuring, certainly much more that a simple install.

One question I have is how to position vis-a-vis Linq (Language Integrated Query, Asp.net 3.5) for SQL. I followed tutorials by Michael Washington a year or so ago, and Linq looked like a wonderful replacement for the data layer in DNN module development via Visual Studio. OWS may be orthogonal, as I don't see a data layer per se (or even much of an object-oriented approach), but maybe I am missing something, and it will become evident as i get deeper into OWS. Does OWS play nice with Linq?

As I understand things, both OWS and RAD essentially provide the DAL.  You work at a higher level than that, and the applications provide the data access for you.